No, Icedragon, it’s not entirely about your post.
To be short about it, I agree with Ice and what she’s saying. I dislike having in my groups those who are stuck with the mindset of AoEing and who refuse to change to different strat or skillset.
And that’s all I have to say about the “what” of her post.
I Disagree with the How
What I vehemently disagree with is the term used to describe that subset of people who are having trouble adjusting to Cataclysm game mechanics in a socially acceptable way.
When I first heard the phrase “Wrath baby,” it was applied to which set of expansion raid strats I was familiar with. That is, I identify with being a Wrath baby, temporally speaking, because I started endgame in Wrath.
What I really don’t like is when that phrase gets its definition switched halfway through the argument to a more derogatory definition.
And what really pisses me off is when I ask people to not use it in a derogatory fashion and they refuse to. I say, hey, if you’re going to be derogatory about it, then use a word that’s already clearly derogatory, like “dumbass.”
If you’re playing like a dumbass, I’m going to call you what you are — a dumbass.
If you call me a dumbass, I’m assuming it’s because you think I’m a dumbass. Whether I am or not, whether I think I am or not, isn’t the problem. I want your word use to logically follow from its definition before I go evaluating whether or not the label is actually truthful of my state of being.
Calling you a word or phrase that means anything else is stupid and misleading of me.
If I walked up and said, “Hey, please stop using the term ‘gay’ to mean ‘stupid’ or ‘lame,'” most people would back off and say they’re sorry. Nevermind that “gay” originally meant “happy” or that until recently / now (depending on your view) it meant derogatory things. You don’t have to include that info in your argument — decent people will simply respect your wishes and stop using it in an offensive way.
Same schtick applies. It don’t really matter if “Wrath baby” started as a bad term or later evolved into one. People who identify with the term/phrase now would really prefer you stop using their identifier in a derogatory manner, regardless of whether you’re talking about them or not.
If you’re going to be wanking on someone for their lack of skill, then use words relating to their lack of skill. Why the hell you have to refer to their environment is beyond me. Sure, the environment helped make them who they are, but you can’t change the entire environment. You’re essentially insulting their mothers, or whatever you want to analogize as their birth of playing.
Yo Momma insults don’t work IRL, and they don’t work IVL either.
But the Wrath environment produced these people, Poneria! They can change, but they won’t!
The Wrath environment also produced me. I would hope I’m not that terrible. I would hope I’ve moved on into tackling the Cataclysm style of play in a reasonable fashion.
Attacking the Wrath environment or mindset isn’t going to change the player’s approach to play. At best you’re letting them excuse their poor performance off onto some mechanic or playstyle that isn’t valid anymore, when the real problem, as Ice said in her definition, is that the player isn’t fully willing to attempt to adapt to the new playstyle.
I’d almost point out that the Wrath environment was only part Blizzard and the other part veteran players, including the same ones like you and me who hate these players who refuse to adapt. But that’d just be attacking things that aren’t really the problem.
Oh yes, I figure some of this is on derailing 101. Please enlighten me instead of discussing the topic I’m posting on. I’m not posting on Ice’s post because I flat-out agree with the point she’s putting forth.
I don’t want to hold people’s hands through dungeons. I don’t think most of our dungeon problems can be solved by gear. I think people bothering to think for two seconds will solve a bunch of the problems. I think people not being complete douchebags to each other would solve the rest of the problems.
There’s nothing more I could terribly say without near, if not total, repetition of what she wrote.
So what’s the solution? A solution for these people who won’t adapt? It’s a motivation problem.
Teach a Man to Fish
It’s like trying to get my guild to fish. Either they will or they won’t, and I really can’t do shit about it if they won’t.
But I can be friendly about fishing.
I can be supportive about fishing, even just a few catches a day. I can congratulate them on fishing achievs which I’ve held for over a year.
I can share what I do to make it fun / useful.
I did, actually, I made a post about pools that also help out the guild in terms of getting 90 stat foods in the meantime.
After I made it and posted it in the guild forums, I really really REALLY didn’t expect many people to read it. Need more emphasis on that “really.” I was convinced my guild thought fishing was for people who are utterly insane to sit and stare at a screen for an hour just clicking once every 17 seconds.
I was completely ready for seeing the counter go up only 50-100 every day until we finally hit the 10k mid-spring.
I got a few whispers / thanks in gchat the next day about the cool post I made about fishing.
People who don’t normally fish for fun started fishing. Not that much, not nearly as much as I like to (I do it daily), but they went out and fished. In pools. People who were vocal about hating fishing even started pointing out that Northrend pools count too.
I got a Sea Turtle while fishing an Uldum pool. Some people mentioned they wanted a turtle, but didn’t know it also popped from non-Northrend pools now.
My guildmates went fishing.
So I’m supporting that. Even if they only catch one fish a day, I’m happy with it. It puts a genuine grin on my face when I see that the counter goes up without me doing anything.
Last night, a literal handful of people — I swear, maybe five of us were fishing? — totally knocked down 1k fish over the night. Last night, I logged in on the early 7000s of fish, and tonight I logged in on the early 8000s.
We’re less than 1.2k now from our 10k pool catches. I fished 100 on my warlock, and maybe 20some on my druid. The other 600some catches today were totally not me, the fishing-lover.
The other 600some catches today were from my guildies’ fishing.
As we mentioned how close we were, the counter was ticking up.
It’s still going up as I’m writing. And no, I’m not actually alt-tabbing in between casts at the moment. I’m sitting afk in front of a vendor.
I’m pretty sure we’d have a lot more to go now if I instead antagonized my guildmates for not being able to stand fishing, despite the new Cataclysm style of guild achievements requiring that everyone help out with it.
I’m not claiming total responsibility for when my guild hits 10k fish. Not even. I’m sure some people would have started fishing the pools regardless of my post existing.
Nor have I done the brunt of the fishing. Sure, I fish a lot, but I was also fishing open water, not pools. I doubt I’ve done more than 1k of that total. I didn’t fish 10k (LOL I don’t even have anywhere near 10k fish caught by Pone in her life of /played).
My guild will have fished 10k.
Which I’m ridiculously proud of, by the way, and I’ll continue to be proud of it even if every single one of my guildmates never fishes again.
Making Lemonade is HARD
I know, I know, what the fuck does being nice to others and fishing have to do with Pet Control & CC. Let me lay it out.
We had a rather disastrous attempt at Bastion 25 trash before Halfus last week. Part of it could have been that it was the tail end of the raid and people were tired, but I was absolutely furious about the slack in the CC and pet control.
Partially I was furious because I could so do my part of the CC and not having my pet run off nomming things. OMG L2P, SCRUBS & all that horrible horrible epeening rage.
>.< … I’m really ashamed about that.
I’m really sorry, guildies, for ever thinking those thoughts toward you.
Partially I was furious because my RL whispered me on one run back about how it looks like Fear isn’t that reliable after all. You see, he was originally reluctant to use Fear as CC because until Cataclysm Fear was baaaaaaaad for instances and he wasn’t aware of the glyph. I’d convinced him, I thought, after running him with a few locks and using Fear, that Fear is actually way better now.
And now people fucking things up were endangering a tactic I’d worked hard on getting my RL to use. Because executed correctly, Fear as a CC really does help, I swear.
I spent the rest of that evening thoroughly ranting about it in my drafts folder.
But I never hit publish.
I waited, because I know I’m a white-hot rocket when it comes to my temper. The majority of things I rant about swing around to, “Shhhhhhhhhhhit, I was such an ASSSSSSSS about that,” in under 8 hours. Really, I’m quite the hothead and I know it.
I was still poisonously pissed about it. Yeah, not just a bit pissed, or even moderately pissed, poisonously pissed. I was ready and willing to rip another long rant right then and there. Days later.
I still didn’t want to hit publish. Despite recent posts talking about how posts that aren’t just news and posts that have some personal oomph in them are more awesome than ever. Despite guildies even telling me, hey, let it out & let the anger demonstrate your point for you.
Because I don’t want to be nasty about it.
I want lemonade, not a mess of squashed lemons.
Being nasty about your lack of pet control and CC is probably not going to motivate you to do better. So I’m holding off on posting it about it until I can get my head around it in presenting how to execute CC well. Several things go into it.
- How to watch your own AoE and why even tanking AoE is bad for some CCing situations.
- How to survive multi-CC fights without using AoE threat (clue: it’s in trusting your team to work together).
- How marking targets with a kill order or announcing which CC target to break next is really more helpful than just trying to break one out with a taunt.
- How to visualize distance between CC targets when linking it up to when to start casting your CC, such that your CC lands on the target placing it in the spot you want, if you’re CCing off the tank’s pull.
- What the real difference is between pet-passive and pet-defensive, and why that difference both exists and matters on different pulls.
- How amazing focus macros, assist macros, and nameplates can be in certain situations.
The people I raid with are amazing and intelligent people on their own. I should be able to treat them as such, yeah? I shouldn’t have to resort to calling them names for it or babying them through it or making social life generally difficult.
I think I can pull that off without being a total asshat about it. Not right now, but soon.
I can’t fix you. Only you can fix you.
But I can control me. I can — maybe — influence you. Maybe.
At least, that’s what my counselor tells me. I figure I ought to start telling me these things about my actions versus other people so I’ll believe them more on the inside.
So I’m going to try my damnedest to be a positive influence. I’m not going to succeed most of the time. Anyone who’s spent time on Twitter while I’m raiding knows that’s totally NOT what happens while I raid. I am quite the negative influence while I raid and I’m surprised more people don’t tell me to just can it already.
I also terribly terribly suck at this IRL. I am quite the lazy and stubborn bum IRL. But I’m working on that.
But Lemonade is SO MUCH MORE Satisfying Than Lemons
A positive influence to me means moving forward, not dwelling on past circumstances or characteristics. A positive influence to me means taking what you have and making what you can of it.
The Wrath environment and “mindset” is what we’ve got. And we’ve got the people who played through it. We’ve also got the Cata environment and mindset. And we’ve got those same people, you and me and the rest of us.
Stop dwelling on how much people suck. It was probably tiresome in Vanilla and Burning Crusade, but I can’t speak from personal experience on those two. I can tell you it was tiresome in Wrath.
It’s tiresome in Cataclysm, too.
Stuff it, already, and move ON, damnit.